AgTalk Home
AgTalk Home
Search Forums | Classifieds (77) | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Balance Sheet-What's the point?
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forums List -> Market TalkMessage format
 
Boone & Crockett
Posted 12/25/2024 04:23 (#11024891 - in reply to #11024815)
Subject: RE: The deferred tax liability with 179 comes when...............


coup - 12/24/2024 22:37

Boone & Crockett - 12/24/2024 20:23

coup - 12/24/2024 20:21

Boone & Crockett - 12/24/2024 18:51

coup - 12/24/2024 19:43

Boone & Crockett - 12/24/2024 18:36

coup - 12/24/2024 19:31

Boone & Crockett - 12/24/2024 18:21

ricefarmer14 - 12/24/2024 19:05

Hey Coup, I’ve read enough of your posts to know you run some older equipment (a nice stuff that gets job done) as do I…talking to accountant my depreciation is running out but so is my equipment debt.

I’ve really enjoyed paying little in taxes over the years and it’s nice to have close to no equipment debt but how should one handle this situation? Don’t really want to buy more to just get more depreciation…
Well, depending on your income, you could pay yourself up 400 grand and deduct it. No equipment, just cash in a qualified retirement plan, earning a competitive interest rate.


How does putting $400,000 in a retirement plan help, when a person could put to use the $400,000 in the farm operation?
because your paying yourself first, and deducting from income tax liability. On that kind of income , you’d be lucky to end up with $250,000 after taxes.


Question I asked is how can a person use the $400,000 in the retirement account in the farm operation?

Can put $400,000 to use in the farm operation and 179 it pay no tax and invest in things that can provide 10-20% ROI.
The depreciation on your 179’d equipment most likely will exceed your projected 10-20% ROI’s, and by a wide margin. Show me one thing that you can 179 that’s guaranteed to appreciate in value. I’ll hang up and listen….


Tile or fertilizer storage @ 20% ROI per year on $400,000 = $80,000 year x 20 years = $1.6 million x 35% income tax = $1 million.

$400, 000 x 5 % compound yearly x 20 years = $1 million


One thing I’ve noticed over the years is you’re always very generous on your presumptive returns. If it’s half that guaranteed over a twenty year timeframe count yourself as fortunate, especially on fertilizer storage. And What about seasoned veterans that already have all that stuff, cuz they’re the ones with the tax problems. And they don’t have 20 years of active management left. You ain’t gonna get 20% guaranteed returns renting out an NH3 bottle in retirement. What else you got?


20% is doable year after year for tile here and for the dry, Nh3, and liquid fertilizer storage has been my experience. Didn't have any compounding figured in the 20% roi on the 179 farm investment. Add compounding into the equation for the farm investment it will blow your $400,000 investment that you are peddling out of the water.
Okay, now let’s look at real world numbers. The reality is tile can does and will provide a 20% return, I’ll for sure agree on that, on taking an unimproved property and system tiling. But here’s where you are very likely not being truthful. You and I both been at this a very long time. How much land do you own that you’ve been farming for a long time has zero tile installed already? When we first started draining unimproved land we’d been farming was on a then accepted norm of 80’ spacing, which provided a huge benefit in how well the ground farmed after that.(70’s era) 20% yield improvements were the result. Fast forward 25-30 years, additional profits went into “splitting the middles”, with now tile on 40’ spacing. Was it an improvement? Sure, in overall consistency across the field on the yield monitor. But nowhere near the gains achieved on the first system installed. Narrowing tile spacing down from a baseline of 80’ spacing is a practice of diminishing returns, albeit a return. But the most bang for the tile buck if there is none and the dollars aren’t there is 80’ spacing. No different than looking at a bell curve for ROI on applied N following beans, in my area 120 lbs is maximum ROI, every unit after that is diminishing returns, albeit a return, to a point of zero. My point being any tile you or I are going to install at this point in our lives is to make the yield map look more uniform across the field, which it will. But the BS you claim to not ever spout is proclaiming a 20% ROI on that investment. Ain’t happening guaranteed each and every year for twenty years. And what about the guys like us that have already made all those improvements, what are you suggesting,splitting the middles again? And claiming and additional 20% ROI? Or going out and buying an unimproved farm just to have a tile deduction on 179? You’ve said many times lately that makes no sense at these prices, and that I’d for sure agree on. And you never answered my question on fertilizer storage. Aren’t you 70? Are you seriously gonna be that guy that doesn’t step aside and turn the operation over to the next generation till your 90? Where’s the ROI on that investment in retirement? The guy renting that infrastructure is going to expect that proclaimed 20% to stay in his pocket for the inconvenience of having to deal with all the extra handling involved vs calling the coop and having it delivered right to the field. Remember, this conversation started from Ricefarmers situation. A man who like us, has plenty of gray whiskers. If he has the ambition, health and desire to work another 20 years, and could utilize additional tile and fertilizer storage, go right ahead. It will not be a wrong decision. May not be optimal use of his invested capital, but not squandered either. But think about the day you retire, how many of those investments in infrastructure are going to continue to provide extra income needed in retirement? This has been a good discussion, and one that prolly needed to occur. I’ll close with this, as a person nears the end of their career, they need to look at things entirely different than they did 20 years prior. You need income in retirement. Income should be the outcome. Where and how should you invest the profits in the last five years of your working career? Do not create tax traps that become difficult to deal with the day you hang up your cleats and bronze your jockstrap. Are those dollars invested in infrastructure going to provide a guaranteed increase in retirement income for the rest of you and your spouses life expectancies? And be honest with yourself, and do not create unrealistic expectations. Over and out. It’s Christmas Day. A day to rejoice in my lord and savior, Jesus Christ.

Edited by Boone & Crockett 12/25/2024 08:13
Top of the page Bottom of the page


Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

(Delete cookies)